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Post by Tony Blackwell on Sept 6, 2005 8:43:28 GMT -5
I was unable to attend the last MCFD Line Officer's meeting, but it was brought to my attention that the topic of marching as a Department was mentioned.
What are your thoughts?
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Post by engine5 on Sept 6, 2005 18:53:07 GMT -5
I don't see it happening until we( myself included ) begin to ACT like a department. There is far too much nonsense occuring between all 5 companies to even begin to consider representing the borough as a department. Just try to look at it from an outsider's point of view. Consider all of the impressive equipment we have. How advanced we have progressed in training. Yet outside of the borough, all we are mostly known for is the animosity between us. You don't have to agree with everyone or even like everyone. But we all ( myself included again) should begin to at least try to respect each other. We can all agree to disagree and still act in the best interest of everyone involved. Until we reach that point, if ever, trying to represent the borough as a single entity will be an empty gesture at best. Feel free to flame me and this message.
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Sept 7, 2005 8:39:32 GMT -5
No flaming here. You make some excellent points and acknowledging the problem is the first step in solving the problem both individually and as companies. One way to help end the "animosity" between companies is to stand up to those within our own companies that continue to feed into that animosity.
I think it's safe to say the MCFD has come a long way in terms of the perception we are seen by outside departments/companies. Cases in Point: 1. Our Department RIT team has been added to numerous run cards and we are moving forward in establishing that team. 2. MCFD was requested to stand-by in the City of Pottsville to handle emergencies during the recent drill and MCFD was specifically requested to provide Incident Command in the event there was an actual response. 3. The Department training we've been doing over the past few years has gotten noticed by others.
If we were perceived negatively as a Department, I don't think any of the above would have happened.
Change doesn't happen over-night but we, as a Department, are making strides. Look where we were 15 years ago, 5 years ago, at present. That being said, imagine where we'll be a year from now, 5 years from how, 10 years from now.
Those invisible walls that have been built over the years are coming down. Before you know it, those walls that were once insurmountable to climb will be simply stepping stones to better things.
It is much easier to accomplish things and solve problems if everyone was together rather than doing it as 5 individual companies. We've done it with training. It can continue it by marching together.
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Post by captain454 on Sept 7, 2005 12:35:16 GMT -5
I think marching as a department would be a good idea and both Tony and Engine 5 bring up valid points. However, I think a lot of the animosity is from events and words that were exchanged 20 years ago. The problem is, we're not letting our young members forget about it. It shouldn't be like I joined company x so now because I'm in company x, I have to hate company z. This includes my company as well. There are members of other companies who I went to school with, played on the same football or basketball team with and now because they are a member of company z, I shouldn't like them anymore....No way. Its about time we start letting our younger generation provide input, ideas, etc. They are our future like it or not. Its time for some people to let go and let the young ones in. What do they think? Personally, and I stress personally meaning me, consolidation is the way to go. It just makes sense. Might be getting a little off topic here.....but yes I would favor marching as a dept. As much as I love seeing the Citizens march, how impressive it would be to see 80-100 marchers carrying the banner of the MCFD.
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Sept 7, 2005 20:39:23 GMT -5
80-100 marchers would be an IMPRESSIVE sight at any parade.
Maybe try it for Memorial Day 2006... ??
Incidentally, Sch. Haven's Chief told me IF we ever managed to get it done, NO ONE would touch us - including SHFD.
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Post by philly on Sept 13, 2005 20:37:53 GMT -5
Everybody is making great points. The biggest is from Wacker 454. We need to let the younger gereration see what can be accomplished when all companies work together, support each other. You say about consolidatoin, will it happen? Some tend to think so. Others say if it does they're done. Guess what Good buy. That's what needs to be done. It's the only way any kind of opperation runs smoothly. Think about it. We have 5 companies, 5 different types of training. Try managing all of that. It's hard. Put everything under 1 or 2 roofs, NOW THAT'S IMPRESSIVE. So to get back to marching as a department, Maybe that should be the next poll. By the way I read in the paper a couple of weeks ago that they had a special service for Mother Teresea in Mahanoy City. We're getting close!!!!!!
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Sept 15, 2005 7:51:08 GMT -5
Let's stay On Topic.... the topic is Marching as a Dept., not merging and consolidating.
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Post by engine5 on Sept 15, 2005 11:34:06 GMT -5
This may be off topic but I'd like to address Capt. 454's comment. I feel we were more of a department 20 years ago then we are now. This is in no way to disrespect our current chief but we were more cohesive as a department when Chief MacCleary was in charge. The line officers at that time, for the most part, were able to keep a lid on most of the nonsense. As far as the younger members, SOME of them ARE the problem. Some of the younger members go around running theirs mouths and actually add ' fuel to the fire.' Unfortunately, this spills over to other members (myself included) and before you know it all of the bitterness from the past resurfaces. Case in point; I wasn't able to attend the convention but I heard there were a lot of 'single finger salutes' after the parade. Over what, a $10 trophy? For any type of joint venture between all of the companies to be successful it's going to take an effort from all of the individual companies to keep their respective members in line. As I had posted earlier, to be a department we don't have to always agree or even like each other. But we do have to respect each other and maybe agree to disagree and then move forward. Until then, it's all just empty talk about beating Schuylkill Haven. These are my opinions and mine only. They do not represent the views of my company. Let the bashing begin!
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Sept 15, 2005 12:16:40 GMT -5
engine5, please see the PM regarding the "salute" incident.
However, if we earn a trophy as one single unit, there would be no reason to have the "salutes" as we would have earned it together. I can't think of a better way to continue to build DEPARTMENT cohesiveness than marching as one toward a common goal - even if it is for just a $10 piece of plastic and wood. The idea of accomplishing a goal as one department certainly out-weighs the value of any trophy.
Yes, it is true that some (not all) of our younger people have different attitudes that fuel the fire. Is that fuel made readily available by the lack of leadership within our companies? Are our Officers making it very well known that behavior like that will not be tolerated? Or our Officers simply looking the other way? After all, most of our officers have been around long enough to remember when the animosity was even greater. What better way to feed the fire indirectly by simply using the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy then act thoroughly surprised when something happens.
I'm not pointing fingers at any Company... all companies - including mine - are just as guilty. But, the sign of a GOOD fire Company begins with strong LEADERSHIP. A strong leadership will have the trickle-down affect to all subordinates.
So, folks, ask yourself... are you part of the problem or part of the solution?
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Post by captain454 on Sept 15, 2005 14:35:00 GMT -5
First of all, I thank you for the kind comments about my father. However, I do know his wish was for the MCFD to be one. He knew it wouldn't happen any time soon, but it was something he wanted and I to share his opinion. Now, is the department less cohesive now? I don't know, but just as 20 years ago, we're making some pretty impressive stops. At the Market St. fire, I believe two members of WE pulled the first line off of E454. That's great. 20 years ago I don't know if that would have happened. As far as line officers keeping a lid on things? Well, I as a line officer try to steer my ff's in the right direction on the fireground and at the firehouse. However, I will never tell them what they should say. They have their own opinions and they are entitled to them. I was not raised that way nor was I told that when I joined my company. Now, do they say stupid things, sure. Who doesn't? I just don't let it bother me anymore. Gentlemen and ladies, we are volunteer ff's in the boro of Mahanoy City. Yes we're important, but in the grand scheme of life not that big a deal. Chill out! Would consolidation be easy? Hell no. Then again, anything that's worth it usually isn't. To me, the only thing standing in the way of consolidation of this and many other dept's is EGOS. If we merge, I might not be an officer anymore...who cares! Its for the betterment of the community. Think about it. Middle of the day on a Wednesday. How staffed are our pieces? Most likely, no piece is rolling with more than 3 people. Now put those 1,2 or 3 people from each company on 2 engines and a truck and you've got yourself 3 fully staffed pieces all on the same page. It just makes sense. I'm really glad my dad's name was brought in to this discussion. Engine 5, you seem to have liked my father and the way he ran things. Do you think he would love to see us march as a dept? You're d**n right he would have. If we went as a dept., we would be going for a trophy together, rooting for one another. We will have worked together for a common goal. Sound familiar, ya, just like on the fireground. Don't tell me it can't be done. To me, can't means I don't want to. We can get along on the fireground, we surely can get along for 2 hours to march in a parade.
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Post by philly on Sept 15, 2005 17:33:24 GMT -5
I did not want to start a whole topic on merging. I just wanted to say that it would impress me more than to see everybody under one roof rather than trying to beat somebody for a trophy.
Maybe marching a a department would be a great way for everybody to get togrther and realize that the person you thought was a "PUTZ" really is not so bad. Who knows more friendships can develop. What is it going to hurt since everybody thinks it so bad anyway, can it get any worse? I think we do good as a department with a lot of room for improvement. This is the first step. It's who is willing to take that first? It starts with small things like this. Engine 5, it sounds like you have your mind made up. Your happy with the way things are. Just my impression. I know in my company we have alot of people wanting to make this happen and take the MCFD to the next level, not saying that everybody should follow, but we want to do it as a department. We want everybody to be involved. Just my impression again. I hope we all could get on the same page, we have something special here and it is staring us mright in the face.
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Post by engine5 on Sept 15, 2005 19:31:14 GMT -5
On the contrary; I am not content with the ways things are. I had always hoped that a lot of the nonsense would eventually dissapate as the years rolled by. But without airing some dirty laundry on a public forum, little has changed. Let's just say that I may have a different perspective than you. We can agree to disagree. But I stand by my first posting; We shouldn't expect for everyone to agree to appear as a department until we begin to act like a department. I'm not pointing fingers at any individual(s) or company or making any accusations. Just stating my observation. Feel free to interpret it as you see fit.
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Post by ems48 on Sept 16, 2005 12:02:35 GMT -5
I think the current chief is doing a great job and leading the department in the right direction. The problem is nobody likes change and will not look into the future of MCFD and what is best for the department.
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Post by captain454 on Sept 16, 2005 13:47:06 GMT -5
I too feel our current chief is doing a great job. I don't know, but at the past few fires we've had, we made great stops.......as a department. We are working together better. Department RIT team(had bugs, but being worked on), department trainings, etc. Lots of good things happening. We just don't always see it that way.
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Post by engine5 on Sept 16, 2005 14:25:23 GMT -5
Just to set the record straight at no time did I criticize the efforts of Chief Kalce. I merely stated my personal opinion that I felt there was more cooperation and respect 20 yrs. ago. My opinion about the topic of marching as a department has nothing to do with him. I was merely pointing out that some attitudes of some in ALL of the companies need to be worked on. How ridiculous and hypocritical would it be to parade in front of people pretending we're finally all on the same page only to have the same old crap start all over. It's just my opinion. If everyone including my company agrees to try it , then so be it. I certainly wouldn't campaign against it. Just keep in mind that this whole thread was searching for opinions of which I offered mine. There were never any personal attacks or grudges involved.
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