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Post by Tony Blackwell on Aug 12, 2005 9:22:23 GMT -5
OK folks... as of this posting, we have 18 members joined. Not bad for a few days... we have a lot of views but no other posts/input so far, so I'll start the discussion...
What are your thoughts on getting a new air compressor for our 15 year old cascade system?
Yea, I'm sure everyone will say, "get a new one", but the main point of discussion is How to Pay For It?
ok, your thoughts?
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Post by captain454 on Aug 12, 2005 14:10:48 GMT -5
Guess I'll start the ball rolling. Has to be a combinations of things......boro funding, relief assoc., mcfd inc. and yes the 5 companies. Not sure what the price would be total, but what we have to realize here is that this compressor is not the citizens or the humanes, its for the MCFD. So we need to work "together" to get it done. If it means giving up our 500.00/year allotment for a year or two then that is something that has to be considered. This is a piece of equipment that is sorely needed. Just me .02
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Post by capt453 on Aug 12, 2005 15:26:59 GMT -5
I agree with capt454, I think it would be safe to say that we would be willing to give our $500.00. Heres a question, I know I will catch hell for bringing this up, But what about making the death benefit fund for L.O.D.D.'s only ?
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Aug 13, 2005 0:17:34 GMT -5
Without going into great detail, is possible for each company to come up with about $1500?
That's an approximation of what would be needed to put in a new cascade system in service by the end of January.
That dollar figure would be less if we only need to replace the air compressor unit and bring the remaining, current system up to NFPA standards.
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Post by prideofmidtown456 on Aug 13, 2005 10:35:01 GMT -5
Bring back Tag Day.
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Post by capt453 on Aug 13, 2005 11:33:50 GMT -5
Yeah, tag day would help, so would billing for calls !
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Aug 13, 2005 13:53:12 GMT -5
Not sure we could bring back Tag Day based on the information that was presented, but if we could get agreement to use the billing funds as a Dept. instead of splitting it up, we would stand a better chance of getting the Borough to pass the ordinance giving us a better chance at actually getting money from billing.
With no ordinance, most insurance companies will not pay the bill.
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Post by engine5 on Aug 13, 2005 17:16:44 GMT -5
Perhaps a committee could be formed within MCFD,inc. to obtain estimates and make a formal proposal. Then we could research funding options. Who knows, with the self appointed raises by representatives in the state government, maybe some 'walking around money' grants might be available.
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Post by captain454 on Aug 14, 2005 7:43:35 GMT -5
How much money was generated yearly from tag day? Probably not enough to cover the cost of the compressor. If I remember, I believe each company got about 400.00 each year. Billing for calls sounds great, but we've been down that road before. Who is going to do it? Who is going to obtain all of the information and submit the bills? We ourselves did not obtain the proper information on calls to move ahead with the billing when we tried it before. Hell, info was not being forwarded to Tony so he could submit the info to Penfirs. Furthermore, council never passed an ordinance to allow us to bill. Finally, two years ago, there was 28,000.00 in MCFD inc. Think that would have paid for the new compressor? You bet ya. Was that idea proposed? You bet ya. But everyone wanted their money. The need for the compressor then was just as dire as it is now. So, if we bill, are we going to split it 6 ways or sock it away for a purchase to benefit all of us. Guys and gals, its time to stop thinking like we're living in the 1960's. Its 2005 and we live in a town of 4,300 people. Reality check. The last time we all worked together on a purchase was when relief bought new air paks. Pretty good deal, every company got 5 brand new air paks. So don't say it can't be done. Engine 5, I agree with your idea about the WAM money, you never know.
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Post by philly on Aug 14, 2005 7:46:54 GMT -5
I believe I have a bunch of info. from when I used to take care of the system. I had price quotes from replacing the whole system or a little at a time. I will look for them and update if I can find.
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Post by commander on Aug 14, 2005 15:47:04 GMT -5
Mahanoy City Borough doesn't need to have an ordinance for a fire company to bill. It's being done everyday by large and small companies, even surrounding communties. If 'Company X' in the MCFD wants to bill for calls, so bit it. Nothing can be done. Mind you it would be out of line to bill our own residents but if a company wants to bill for MVA's on 81 or any other roadway they have every legal right to do so. If the insurance doesn't pay, the company can say "Oh well" or give them their three notices (90 days) and then send it to collection. As long as you are an established chartered organization I say go for it. If the department doesn't want to do it but a certain company does there is nothing that could be done. As for the compressor. It is 15 years old but is it broke and is it an expense that has to be done right at this very moment? Can it wait a year or two? $1500.00 from each company is like asking for someone's kidney. Heck, each company only gets a little more than that each year from the borough. Not too many companies around that can say "Here's $1500.00. Go get it taken care of." Just my thoughts and opinions which never count for much.
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Aug 14, 2005 16:57:04 GMT -5
Just to clarify..... Each company get a bit more than just the $3,000 a year from the Borough. But that's what 95% of the Department thinks that's all they get. They forget about the cost to the Borough for Worker's Comp., insurance on all the apparatus as well as fuel for the apparatus and maintenance on the cascade system. In all, I'd say the Borough budgets well over $50,000 to the FD.
In addition from the Borough budget money as noted above, each company receives additional Accident & Health insurance benefits, an equipment allotment, death benefits, training reimbursements and other benefits from the Relief Assn. costing approximately $20,000 - $25,000 annually.
My point? Each company receives a heck of a lot more than they realize. If $1,500 is like asking for a kidney, how many body parts would have to be sacrificed if your company had to pay their share of between $70,000 and $75,000 annually?
If memory serves me correct, two years ago a new cascade system would have cost us about $32,000. Today, that same system is about $35,000. Sure we could wait a year or two. We could wait five years if you'd like. But, as the old saying goes, "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later."
If we have the funds now, why wait? It's only going to cost us more.
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Post by commander on Aug 14, 2005 18:33:05 GMT -5
But do we have the funds now? I'm not against getting a new compressor. I don't think anyone is. It's more of "Can we afford $1500.00 from our account?"
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Post by Tony Blackwell on Aug 15, 2005 0:57:27 GMT -5
Do we have the money? Being the Treasurer of the Relief, Yes... for the most part - but the idea needs some assistance from MCFD, Inc. and each company in some form or another.
Look for a request for a meeting between all concerned parties in the near future to formally present the idea.
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mahanoy456
Probie
Telling it like it is since 1966
Posts: 2
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Post by mahanoy456 on Aug 25, 2005 17:26:18 GMT -5
Anybody remember a few years ago when the dept. met with council at GAH? It was a Sunday afternoon. Cascade system was the topic. We got alot of excuses(as always) & alot of promises. Broken promises, as usual! As for the boro paying workers comp., they have NO CHOICE. IT IS STATE LAW! So do not give me that garbage! How many municipalities would pay it if it was not law? Take away the workers compensation & vehicle insurance and what is left? Now take into consideration that the boro just got an insurance quote for the vehicles that is 8,000 less than they have been paying. What does that say for the boro? Overpaying for how many years? It took someone to ask them if they could give a quote to the boro. Isn't it the job of the boro to shop for insurance? So let"s say for the last 6 years boro has been paying too much. There is a new cascade plus an extra 13,000 for the police budget.(since they get whatever they want) Anyway back to the system. The maintenance in the last 5 years would probably pay for one fourth of a new one. Tag day? ILLEGAL! PERIOD. Stand in the middle of the road & get pancaked over a dollar? Great philosophy! Do we need an ordinance to bill? I don't know but I do know that one was drawn up & council was ready to pass it. However, it was squashed by someone in the dept. I have the ordinance if anyone wants to read it. A few months ago, a special meeting was called by MCFD Inc. to discuss the cascade system. 4 people showed up. Some important info was gathered but no one seemed to care at that point. One point was that we learned that we could apply for the FIRE grant as a dept. This would not affect individual company grants. That info came from Holdens office. We even secured a volunteer to do the application but it was all dropped when 4 people showed up. So how do we get a new system? Option 1- Submit an application as a dept. for federal money. Option 2-Get boro to pay half & relief association to pay half. Option 3-A combined effort. boro,MCFD, relief assoc. Option4- Another combined effort. Boro, MCFD, relief, & 5 companies. Option 5-Get rid of the system completely & go back to burning down blocks like in the 70's! Option 6 -PUNT! Keep in mind that if the boro goes with this new vehicle insurance, they will save 8,000 dollaes a year. In my opinion, that should go to the FD. Afterall, it was one of us that enlightened them anyway.
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